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HomeMy WebLinkAboutM111076r n __________=====Nov_emhe~ED~l9Zb`==--___=--_~w~_ RECONVENED: 9:55 a.m. Present: Supervisors Ladd, Madigan, McKillop, Richter and Chairman Comeron. Clif Mickelson, Administrative Officer, Dan Blackstock, County Counsel, and Clark A. Nelson, Covnty Clerk, by Margie Caft, Clerk of the Board. 76-1976 DISCUSSION: STANDARDS AND GUIDELINES FORENVIRONMENT Dan B ae stoc ,County Counse , stated t at discussion s ov d Rot be head at this time on the standards and the environmental guidelines. It is his understanding that the standards ore going to 6e modified by Aqr. Castleberry and wFll 6e ready in three weeks. The County will be operating under the present standards. Background of the matter set out by Mr. Blackstock. Maps filed with the County and action being held up discussed. Hardship cases explained. Mr. Blackstock stated the County had agreed with the Stipulation with gttamey General. Mr. Blackstock stated he would discuss matter with Mr. King and sae iF he is amiable to matters set out by Mr. Ringel yesterday. Mr. Blackstock will have a transcript made ofyesterday,!5=tape as ho the portion refacing to the presentation by Mr. Ringel and Mr. Lippincott. It was suggested that perhaps the Board could hold a special meeting in Chico to receive theexpressians•of people in that area. This would provide the people with an opportunity to set out their views in this matter. Discussed; no action taken. RECESS: The Board recessed at 9:10 for an executive session. RECONVENED: The Board reconvened of 9:35 following an executive session. Litigation was discussed; 'Chairman Cameron stated there was nothing to report. ADJOURNMENT: There being nothing further before the Board at this time, the meeting was odjoumed at 9:36 to reconvene on Tuesday, November 23, 1976 at 9:00 a.m. ATTEST: CLARK A. NELSON, COUNTYCLERK By:~ airman o t Boar Cer<a t e r Page 2B9. November 10, 1976 .__.f Transcript Plove ~r 9, 1976 meeting Walter 8 Eleancnahnd Cameron: This is the review of the application of use permit for Walter 8 Eleanor Zahnd for group home . Do Board members have any questions before I open this hearing to the pvbl it 2 Ladd; Yes Mr. Chairman, I see that the gamblers and the states property is once again setup here to be used. I know of no other time that it's ever been used. The last time it was stated it was for use of the class. It seems very clear to me that it's a misuse of public funds and a direct conflict of interests for Mr. Zahn to be able to use the State Universities peopery to come and record his own proceedings, and if it was for class- room benefit, f think that they would be other than just the ones dealing with him, and I am going to make a motion that Fhis be referred to the District Attorney for investi- gation and referred to the Butte County Grand Jury. Richter: Mr. Ladd, I think that there should be inquiries from Mr. Zahnd as to where the equipment came from and how he justifies it. 1 think there is an explanation necessary and i would be, perhaps, willing to second that motion if the explanation doss not support comings that Is reasonable. Cameron-. Mr. Zahnd is here. ('m sure he'd be happy to answer the question when we get the hearing open. Ladd: Mr. Zahnd, at the last public hearing we had, reFused to answer any questions under oath. I think that he should be explaining that to the Grand Jvry. Richter. Well, I think it's highly appropriate before the hearing begins. I'd like to know the answer to the question Mr. Ladd raises. Cameron: Then if the Hoard members have no other questions before vre open the hearing, I will open the hearing to the public and maybe Mr. Zahnd would like to come up and offer an explanation and answer that question first of all ~ [ ~ ~ _. Page --_ Ladd: I would raquesf that if he answers that question rnat he be asked to take an.oath. Richter; Well, don't you think we could procedd without that at this point Mr. Ladd. We'ff find ou# maybe at some point that's appropriate but I don't think at this particular point. Cameron: tvlr. Zahnd do you want to go ahead and answer that question? Mr. Zahnde The video equipment is from the California State University at Chico where I teach. The utilization of thequipment was authorized by the department chairman, by my previous dean at the school of Health and Human Services, and also by the past vice president who is now president of one of our Southern California Universities. At the time of the last hearing, this same issue was raised and 1 believe at that time Mr. Ladd went over it and talked to the people of Chico State and they endorsed and encouraged me to use the video equipment for purposes of bringing back to the classroom action oriented issues, particularly around social policy, which obviously this case is. I haven't used the tapes in my classes twice. I don't use it that much. Itie'like an unfim isHed;piece of art work and needs to be polished and needs to have dome documentary comments put onto it before it's really usable. Some of the other faculty in the Depart- ment of Social Worker and Corrections have used it and I hope that it gets used frequently as an educational tool, a vehicle for affective intervention on behalf of children and other groups that don't have the capacity or the ability to speak for themselves. Do you have another question Mr. Ladd? , Richter: I have a comment. I think that it's one thing for someone to coma in here and tell this proceeding for educational purposes when they are not a party to the action at hand. And I think it's another thing for you to come in here when you have a vested interested in the outcome of these proceedings and when your issues are being discussed by this Board and to then use The States facilities to film this and use it. And my awn particular view is that somebody who approved this used poor iudgment and regretfully, I chink, puts the University in a very difficult position with the public. I think it's inappropriate that when you are a party to this action that you come in here with State facilities to film these proceedings. I think it's unfortunate and I think it's bad judg- ment on your part and on the part of the people at the LJniversity who approved it. Cameron: Weil, apparently the questions, as far as having approval for the equipment, has been answered. t# we don't agree with that, of course, in our own opinions that's one thing, but if it has been approved Ladd; Is there any approval in writing? Zahnd: I don't have any with me. I'm not sure there is any. Ladd: I'd like to see it in writing. I'd like to know who approves this. Richter; I think we could assume that it is approved. ('m willing to accept that. Ladd: A, well, Cameron: I am too Richter: I mean I don't think that that changes the issue, if this is approved. Ladd: I think that to assume that it is approved is one thing, but to hove someone sign his name that he approved it is, maybe, quite another thing. Madigan: Well, if you want proof, let's put the matter over for two weeks until we can determine that. Richter: Well, we go# too much here. Cameron: Well, I think that the fact that !the fact that the hearing is scheduled as a public hearing, this is something entirely separate that the 8oard...inaudible McKillap: I think that we could hear the people today and continue the hearing until we get the proper documentation. Ladd: Even then, I don't think that one could or should highe on the other. There separate issues and I, in my judgment, would not use one to either approve or dis- approve the other but I think it is something that certainly should be looked into. Pt, r Cameron: If it's the Boards desire, we can probably asx Mr. Zahnd if he would famish us with letters from the people he just referred to that gave him approval to use the equipment and letters from them then would certainly suffice to prove that, I would •• think, that he has authority from the college and his dean and department head and etc. to use the equipment and if you want to discuss that in two weeks that those letters then could be back to us by that time, if that's the Boards desire. Mc_ Killop: I think..... inaudibie Cameron: I concur with Supervisor Richter. I think that there's no doubt that the man has approval to use the equipment. Richter I just think the judgment to use ft is questionable. Cameron: Than let's get on with our public hearing concerning the use permit and the perusal on the annual basis for this use permit. Arc there any othera~questions from the Board members? Madigan: Mr. Chairman, does Jim Lawson have a memorandum. Lawson: Yes, you have a memorandum from the zoning inspector and 1 think you all received a copy. Madigan: We did? Lawson: Well, you should have. I do have a memo, do you want me to read it? Mc Ki I1oP: Yer, please . Lawson: inspection of the above described property shows that Mr. and Mrs. Zahnd have complied with all the conditions of the use permit. They have five girls at the school at the present time and they and the girls of the Zahnd's other care home are taken to 823 Elliott Road, Five days a week to go to school. Final inspection was made by the Building Department and all violations noted in Mr. Glander's letter of Nov. 13, 1975, have been corrected. Cameron: Would you go back slowly through that part about the school again, i didn't / i _ ._ . Lawson; Yes. They have five girls at the school at the present time and they and the girls from the Zahnd's other school are taken to 823 Elliott Road by Cameron; 823 Elliott Road Lawson: Yes Cameron: lfiat's nothing to do with Wagstaff then? Lawson; Yes. I think what he's trying to say their caking these girls to the Elliott Road site. Cameron: Oh, okay. Richter: Wait a minute, you calling them schools. Aren't they domes? Lawson: Well, he uses the term school. They're homes. Richter: Well, I think that's important because some people contend that. You want to use the right words there. Cameron: They live in the home on Wagstaff. And that's what I'm trying to clarify. That they're taken to the school on Elliott for schooling. Okay. Ladd: Is that a commercial zoning there. Lawson: On Elliott Road? Ladd: Yes Lawson: I believe it is. Cameron: ~(es, it is. Cameron: Board members have any other questions before 1 open this hearing? Ladd: We had letters I assume the other Board members did get the letters too stating that the bussing of the children to this location that is now under questioning continued for some four months past the date that the Board granted the use permif. And had made it directly clear to Mr. Zahnd that that was a viola#ion of the zoning laws. Richter: Could we clarify Mr. Ladd that somebody here, would you for me clarify what you mean by bussing of the students to the home. Clarify that. I'm not clear as to what we mean by that. - ~" ~ ~ - ~ Page 6 - Ladd: People, children from other areas, so that this was used as a school, as a commercial enterprise rather #han as a residential care home. Richter; Otherwords Ladd; As the law indicates Richter: That`s what they figure and I want to get that clear, otherwords, their saying that the place where they were housing kids was used somewhat as a legend. That it was used as a school, and they were bringing people in for the day, in addition to the people that ware there. Ladd: That's correct. Richter, Okay, that's what I want to get clear. I know we can ask forconformation or refutation of Chet as the hearing proceeds. Ladd: I hope so. Richter; Okay, cause I wonted to ... inaudible... Cameron: Is there any other questions from Beard members on Mr. Lawson before I open this hearing? Then if there are none, I'll open the hearing to the public. Anyone that wants to speak on this matter concerning the Walter Zahnd reapplication and use permit please come up to the podium, give your name and state your position. Don't hesitate, we're going to move along in this thing, so if you come up to the podium, give us your name and state your position. Hudson: My name's John Hudson, 1 live at 971 Wagstaff, which is directly nextdoor to the Zahnd's home. We went over this a year ago or whenever, the last time we were here, and it dosen't seem to me that things have changed any since the last time I was here. There has been bussing of the children for four months or sa and we talked about the, at the last meeting, about boyfriends and things visiting these girls at the home. Now, since that #ime, there has been, and they be even parked in my driveway, so I just wanted to clarify that. p. Richter: i wont~ask you about bussing. You said,bu ~g of the kids now, you mean bussing the kids from the home somewhere else ar bussing Hudson: No, bussing other kids to the home. Richter: This occurred right after the hearings that we held? Hudson; Oh, it continued fo occur for about four months after that. Richter; Ok, and did we make it clear that this was not to 6e allowed and, Mr. Lawson, was this made clear to the Lawson: The second condition placed on the use permit that there would be no bussing of students to this home. Richter: Ok, now how can you verify that, I mean, what basis do you have to verify that. That's a serious accusation. Hudson: Well, when you see busses come Into the home, and the children get out of it, or something and then at 2:00 o'clock in the aftemoor~, you see them get back into the bus and leave, where are they going? Richter; Ok, that's what you saw with your own eyes. Hudson: umhuh. Richter: How many kids got out of the busses? Hudson: Well, there's been different amounts at different times, but from 4 to 6. Richter: And there were like how many at the home3ln otherwords there were like 4 or 5 at the home 9 Hudson: Well, he's got a permit for six Richter: Yes, 6, so ino#herwnrds, amotlier 4 came. Hudson: Yes Richter: in a bus. In same kind of a van. Wudson: Yes. Richter :Got out of the bus. Hudson : The mini van . Richter: Then, day after day, not just one time ? /~~ ~ ~ ~ Page 8 Hudson: Oh yeah Richter; You saw this, I mean Hudson: Yeah, well, I wa:n't there every day but d checked it three or Four times a weejC, so Richter: And you saw thattcike place? Hudson: I sure did. Richter: Okay, I, any other Cameron: Someone else now. No one. else wants to speak on the matter. I'm going to close the hearing. Zahnd: I would just like to ask you to consider the removal of the yearly reviews and also the removal of the bussing issue. I'd also like to point out that during the year that we've been over on Wagstaff, the past year, !don't think there's been any major instances, there haven't been any minor instances that I know of in realtion to the neighbors, or the neighborhood, or the community. I think if anybody drove by there they'd see that the house was ^s kept up as it was the day we moved in, if it's not better condition. We've also put in additional parking and asphalted that so that we have more than adequate parking there. We, after the conditional use of no bussing was stated on the conditional use permit, we continued to take students over (here far ^ white 6e~ause of the question of the legality of that. I also met with your County Counsel, Mr. Blackstock, at that time after thaF, and he said if there was a poorly written and poorly stated-condition on the use permit was not clear and was ambiguous and Madigan; Why did you accept? Zahnd: That's one of the things that (debated about, whether I should or not, But I thought that I would gp and try to do the best job that I could with the kids and with my program and come back in a year and ask that it be relooked at. And since you've al- ready heard that we have another school site, we don't bus students there any longer and !'ve heard from several other people that the continual reapplication request for use permit _ ---~ ~ ~ Page 9 is extremely unusual that there has been no precedent for this in the history of Butte County, that when we checked with the procedure for reapplying for our conditional use permit or the one your hearing with the County Planning Commission, they had no state of procedure 'about how we go about doing this. Richter: Could I ask the Planning Director Lawson: Yes Richter: If you could read to me, Mrs. Zahnd, sovld you stand up, I'd like to ask you some questions. 11~e condition, is the condition in your view unclear? Would you read it? Lawson; Well, it says that there be no bussing of students to this home. I'm reading from the Board Minutes, number 3, that the permit be issued for one year. The Board Minutes also state Mr. Blackstock explained how the matter could be handled. Mr. Zahnd cannot operate a school on the premises and then the motion followed with those conditions. Richter: At the time that we discussed this did we discuss in detail what we meant by that bussing.. Was that discussed in this boardroom? Ladd: Very clearly. Richter: We talked about the Fact that we did not, that is kind of vague, I mean this isn't very precise is it? Ladd; County Counsel stated clearly that that would be against the zoning laws that that was not permitted in a residential home and that's the zoning that this comes under and that it was clearly against the law. Mr. Zahnd was present Richter; In otherwords, you'd have to have a license for a school. Ladd: Yes Richter: You'd have to have a commercial license for a school to go through that process and that was the intent of this particular condition was discussed at the Ladd: Yes, because it was eiearly against the law and the fact that Mr. Zahnd ignored Fhat up until the time, I believe, that the Bonrd gave directions for the Planning Com- mission to hold a hearing to make a determination whether his permit should be revolked Page 10 or not. I think that is a good deal like the fact that he remodeled his home without a building permit when he knew that he needed one. When he started operating before getting a use permit, he was already in use before he got the use permit, knowing that the law said that he had to have a use permit. That I think you might remember also. Richter: Well, in otherwords, I don~t know how poo;9y written it was but apparently Mr. Zahnd you unders+oad th®rirttent of the Board at the last meeting that it was our intent to bar bussing for the purposes of the school in that resident, did you understand that was our intent when the fast Board meeting was over? Zahnd: What I understand was that there was a strong discussion around that issue and f concurred that we moy do that. The way it was stated on the conditional use permit did not state that and when I confirmed for new legal counsel, at my own expense, and they said that you cannot be prosecuted for the intent that it has to be the written low. 1 met with your own County Counsel, Mr. Blackstock, and Mr. E_awson was there, and they at the time, Mr. Blackstock stated it was poorly written, he said that it was possible and feasible and we examined the laws, Mr. Ward Cameron was there, w8 examined the laws, there were stipulations that said ineffect, there was o question of terminology, that if we did not call it n school, we cnll it ... inaudible... Richter: 1 don't understand some of the words your using. McKillop: No, I think what Mr. Richter said was you understood the intent of this Board though. You tried #o Ladd: He agreed to right here before the Board, he agreed not to stop the bussing, that he would not bus +hem. Zahnd; No, then right at the end !said 1 wasn't sure. 1 stood up there and I said I'm not sure on that issue. Richter; Well, we are. ~ _\ ~* Page 11, i inaudible Ladd: Not until the Board had taken action, you agreed that there would be no more bussing. And after we had taken action Cameron: Well, there was some question on it because an additional meeting was set up wi#h Mr. Lawson, myself, and County Counsel who got out the law books over there and prrarwwed through them and explained, at that time, Madigan: Who runs policy, this Board aT a few people? Cameron: Well, I think what, of course, should have taken place. Hindsight's always better but counsel should have come back to this Board and said this should be rewritten in such a manner to stipulate what is really law. McKillop; hlo, no, I think it was the intent of the Board that there would be no bussing from th€s point art Cameron: I realize that Zahnd: Mr. Blackstock even requested rrre to come back and to confront the Board again because he said it was a poorly written law. And from the passe! that I got over the last issue, I decided I wouldn't da that. Richter: Are you reading, when you read to me, did you read Lawson: Those are the exact conditions, I don't understand that because County Counsel set there when the conditions were put on the use permit, if they weren`t clear, it should have been clarified at that time. itichter: Were you at a meeting where counsel said it was poorly written? Lawson: He discussed ;tat some length €n legal ease, the definitation of bussing and school, etc. Yes, I left the meeting, it was over my head. Madigan: And what were they talking about, bussing for 30 kids as against bussing Lawson: I don`t know, I suggest you ask County Counsel what the•d~finition is. if Ladd: Qf course there's no doubt that Mr. Zahnd is well aware of the fact that~rou do not agree with some of the remedies i'o get it changed rather than before it is app~imate ly `i 2 decided, you jur'o ahead and violate the law for/elao, four months. Zahnd: It wasn't for four months. Ladd: It was not you say. Zahnd:', No, it was not for four months. Madigan:. We have a written statement that names fair specific months. Richter: This puts the Board in a tenable situation. You know these homes are undoubtedly necessary and the Legislature has seen fit to make exemptions to allow them. And yet it seems like Mr. Zahnd is willing to decide for himself what laws he'll obey and what laws he won't obey, to do what he wants to do. I'm just very dislrubed with this. I think this is a very bad situation ,hot we have here. And he did it, as you say, with the building permit before, and then he asked us to list the one year review which he said is unusual and we don't have any other prec€dent for it but it's because of what' happened before that we went to the one year review because we were concerned about you abiding by what youlre supposed to do. Zahnd: Wait a m€nute. When juvenile justice commission or whet, California Youth Authority standard setting condemns the Juvenile Hall, we don't immediately close it the next day and move out. We have a period of grace, an opportunity to do that in an normal progression .. We have an opportunity to do some planning. When I came in here last year with good intensions, I didn 't think that I was that far an•r~vhlaw as some of yourpeople may think. And then, !did, after I explored Borne things with County Counsel, after I reeked some legal acv€ce from a private lawyer, and when your own County Counsel tells you to come back to fight with you guys some more, or bring it up for an issue because the law was really not clear: on what was meant by bussing and what was meant by a student that I should come back again, and I didn't want to do that. liemie. So after I looked ___. ~ . _ I'a Madigan; Is there some question about what a student is in your mind? Zahnd: That isn't what the sentence says on the permit. dhd then aFter I went through that stuff, then I decided the best thing to do to keep peace with everybody was to find another site, And we proceeded to do that, and wee moved the school out of there, and we have not had classes there or our school program there. . Richter: You see one of the things that concerns me Ts that there is a lot,af fear about these kinds of programs in the community. The Board has to make a decision to approve or disapprove of these items with some reasonable conditions, that's what our prerogative is. And the people who are abjecting to what is going on, maybe some of their objections are fancy and some of them are not. Maybe some of them are real and some of then are unreal, but when things have occurred like hove occurred in this whole situation, it reinforces the fear that these people have about what's gaing on in the situation, it makes them very skeptical and makes them what to ask the Board to restrict what's what going on becuase they don't trust you. And you go ahead and live up tq~, you know, to the things that make them very unhappy. And that's the thing that bothers me and besides the Fact that ,you know, you obviously know what the intent of the Board was and you simply decided to ahead and do what you wanted to do. Zahnd: I also know what the Board stated on their conditional use permit. Ladd: Can you read, do you have that there. Zahnd: It says that there be no bussing of students, And your own County Counsel , when I asked for an interpretation of that, said he wasn't quite clear. Richter; But you knew what it meant, you know, and I knew what it meant, the Board knew what it meant, we knew what it meant, right? And we all knew, and it may be the use permit didn `t state it as clearly, that's why I asked for clarification of the charges proceeding as to what it meant, but you knew, and you decided to do what I ~w.~ I ~ Pa, you wanted tot Zahnd: No, I decided that assuming being reasonable rnen, so we'd also have a reasonable time to make some changes with that kind of issues too, which is sort of normal procedure. Richter: I think that Zahnd; We also asked how we could appeal a decision from the Board of Supervisors and every place we went to try to get information doout that, tlierp was no information on thnt either. , Richter: All you had to do to get information on what the intent of this Board was was to show up the next week at II:00 o'clock and ask us. McKiIIoP: And you also knew that it was theitntent of this Board so everybody could have building permits before you went ahead with your building, which you obstructed completely. And we really, as you say because of the Letterman Act, really don't i'~v'e;much leeway, but we can refuse if they fight it in court. We have some preroga- tives also not to be walked on. cC.addr ; As contray as it might seem, and probably wouldta ~ lat.of people, I'm I think that, not trying to kilt the man's use,/I really feel that under the law there is a, !don't think he actually complies with the, I know he didn't, with the intent of the law and I think the whole thing is a commercial enterprise but there's no doubt a need For care for these type of people, but I do think that it's going to have to be done in a manner that's according to the law and not just ignore very important laws that Cameron: Well, I think that point has been made very clear to Mr. Zahnd and I think that the reports that we've received from Mr. Ferguson on his investigation covering all those items that we had in there at that time , that those have been now rectified. They are not running a school there, they have covered the6viJding permits and the other items as discussed, they have made additional parking area so that the cars can get off the road. I think our question today is not necessarily reprinmanding Mr. Zahnd __ _.. Pay who did, in all~'}ents, certainly go about this in the on9 manner, within the law, but whether this use should be allowed to continue ~t that particular address. Richter: Weli, there's some other points raised in here and I'd like to get some judgments from Public Works or Planning or both, in regards to the Wagstaf$~roperty; and !don't want to knitpick, but now I'm very interested in having some judgment made by some professional staff person as to whether there is ~: sufficient parking and sufficient back-up, baekrouh area, etc. in the Wagstaff area. ,- ' And I would I ike to see some- Thing come back from someone going over to the Wc$staff property and making the judgment. I understand they have put another driveway in, I understand there is some additional parking. There is still soma dispute; as to whether it's sufficient. I think some staff person ought to come back with the judgment to this Board as to whether or not we ought to attach condition asking for more improvements or whether the improve- ments are sufficient that are there. And I wouldn't want to make a judgment about improving this with that or without that condition, without that information. and Cameron: Well, maybe the Board lmembers would like to gq~look at it . Richter: I did, t did look at it and when I was there there weren't any cars parked there but I was told by the person that ask me to come there that there were a lot of cars parked there at other times and the day 1 was there, at the time, there wasn't anybody there . But I am saying that I think I would like to have a staff person go up and make a judgment as to how many cars they have, talk to these people, see what they have, and come back with some kind of an opinion. The people are concerned about what they call the safety hazard in the street. Now maybe it isn't a hazard, maybe there's no problem but 1 got several phone calls from people who said they were concerned about it. It ought to be looked at. Eadd : I think that the backing out into the street, with the visibility very limited, should be checked out and see if there can be a safer method . Richter: The rod, is a narrow road ,rhere could be~ere's a rise in the , page 16 that goes down, it could be a problem, but again I didn't see any problem when I was there but the people tha:ught there were. I think that we could get that judgment back and we could make a then we could, we should decide to put a condition on that they put more parking in or not or whatever. McKillop: We had put additional parking an it Richter: Yes,; you put a whole driveway McK;llopd" And I looked at it also Richter; Right Cameron: Well, 1 visited there several times and with the additional changes, I knew•tthere wasn't any cars there or one or two at one time and there didn't appear to be any problem but if its t!ie t3oards desire to have someone go out and look at it sand check it to see if additional parking or better ingress and egress is needed +xhy I'd certainly like to. Came:in : Fine Ladd: Specifically the backing out into the road and the location of the driveway would appearta 6e Richter; We could continue the hearing then until we got that information Cameron; Well, it would appear we will want to anyway to answer Counsel but as we have the hearing schedule , we certainly will have to hear from people who are here today. Somebody else want to discuss this matter now? Then I'm going to suggest that we continue the hearing until a, a let me see the schedule whether we can do it or not McKiflop: The 21st Cameron: Lot`s set it for 10;30 again on tJovember 23 and continue this hearing unt€! that date. In the meantime, Mr. Lawson, would that give Mr. Ferguson. time to also go out and possibly somebody from Mr. Castleberry's office/could go with him, Page 17 Ladd: I think rt someone other than Mr. Ferguson ~Id go out to check these safety (cough)....! also feel that Mr. Ferguson hod a duty to report, to investigate and report when he was sent out before an this school violation, to report that it had been going on but it had been evaded and I, if there's anything in there to report concerning that or if he`d talked to any of the people who make that determination, it is not indicated. Cameron: ~s~bltC~tx~sQaSekxboce~gaoa~xdaa~mfxEdkxx~asxsooassw~esead;:oapisscx Probably it would be a good idea Mr. Lawson to send copies of that report nut to the Board members. Richter: He did in fact. Did Mr. Ferguson note-•~o the fact that it was operoting that way 4 Is that ~OwSO.n :: Well, of course, you can't determine if they terminated the use of the property as a-schaml:,~4hen he goes out to inspect the site. His memo to you is dated November 2. They've obviously terminated the use of the site as a schoolby then . Richterc, I know, but Jim's point was that Mr. Ferguson should have been sent out there to verify what people had written in abou# it and apparently he didn't do that I guess. Lawson -i; Well, I don't think so. There's nothing indicates that he received idx any complaints in the immediate period after they established the school. The letters we have now are al I dated Richter; I see ~bwson, •.; concerning this year. He may have, but I'll check with him. Richter : I see, Okay. Cameron ; Fine, then we will continue this hearing until that date and time, 10;30 on November 23rd. Transcript, No~~ber 23, 1976 Corihnued Hearing of ~Iter $ Eleanor Zahna CAMERA N: Now we have the continued hearing or the review of the. Use permit for Mr. Zahnd . Board members, I think, requested that they wanted to ga out and see some of the improvements, particularly in regard to parking and eft. in access to that property, on the last hearing LADD: It was requested that the Public Works Deportment make an examination of that CAMERON: Has that been done Mr. Lawson? LAWSON: I don't know, 1 assume we did CAMERON: Mr. McDonald LAWSON: The Public Works Deportment ask us to go out and look at it. CAMERON: Do you have the copies of the report from Mr. Ferguson that we had at the last meeting'blso? LAWSON: Yes I do CAMERON: Right. Do you have a report on that Mr. McDonald? MC DONALD: Weil, l'm not familiar with it Mr. Chairman. Let me coil the office and see if possibly-.fohn•.,.,.• inaudible.... CAMERON: All right. There was some questions raised conceming the ingress and egress and also parking facilities there, I think, as far as safety of that was concerned at that time. Mr. Zahnd is in the audience and may like to speak to the review of his use permit further. I know there was same questions conceming the equipment that was here at the last.meeting which he said he had permission for, and I understand that the Board desires he does have letters of support. MC KILLOP: He has written documentation CAMERON: Yes LADD: Approval ? ~ Page 3 continue to do so and to encourage students to attend meetings at City Council, the Board of Supervisors and Legislative Committee Hearings. These have the drawbacks of being inaccessible to many students because of time conflict. The video taping provides a good substitute. I extend my best wishes for productive Board Meetings.and my, thanks to you and your colleagues for fair and equitable public administration. Sincerely, Archie McDonald. CAMERON: That would :appear to cover at least those questions I think tk-ufi were ~ ;,. raised at the last portion of this meeting and I think that Mr. McDonald, while we're waiting for him to come back with a report from Public Works, it would be in order to let the Board members have some further questions, at this time, to continue the open hearing to the public if someone else wants to speak. I see Mr. Brissell here CAMERON: Fine, then if someone else wants to speak an this matter will you please come forward and state your nameaand position. BRISSELL: My name is Eugene Brissell, I live at 988 Wagstaff, directly across from 963 and I would like to know what extraordT~aey;•connections would enable Mr. Zahnd to collect $875 far each girl when other who take in dependent neglected children are paid a fraction of that ah~ount. We I I' C~4MEt~~sl:.~1V.1r.. Brissell, I don't, as far as I'm concerned, f don't feel that the Board is going into what he receives in payment, or dosen't receive, this is irrelevant to what we're doing. We`re trying to make a determination as to whether the use permit should be continued or notr¢~J I know that, in my own study throughout the State, there an: some Counties that pay as high as $1500 and ~1700'to have their people put into certain type of homes and others only pay $400 and $500 but I don't see that that's relevant to the cause that's here today. BRISSELL: All right, then I would like to read something else. I'd also like to read excerpts from the November 4, 1975 meeting where on the bottom of the page 348 it page states Supervisor~rvlcKillop questioned Mr. Zahnd abou~~he girls he brings in during the day. This use changes the use of the building. If a permit had been issued to Mr. Zahnd, the Board could move to revolk the permit as they felt he was in violation' of the permit. Mr. Zahnd could not conduct the school at this site by bringing in other students. Also excerpts from the November:ilB meeting. Mr. Blackstock explained how the matter could 6e handled. Mr. Zahnd cannot operate his school on the premises. If Mr. Zahnd insists on the bussing operation, then the County would have justification it of withho{ding the use permit. The following paragrapF-~states it was moved by Supervisor McKillop, seconded by Supervisor Cammeron and carried That the Board issuance approve the,/isme of the use permit subject to the followarig condition: Improvements to the garage to be corrected before the use permit is issued. That there be no bussing of the students to this home, that the permit be issued for one year. In violation of the foregoing, the bussing operation was continued for several months following the November 4 meeting and in view of the above, I urge'you gentlemen to deny the issuance for extensions of the use permit. And also i would like to make one more comment. Inosmuch as Mr. $, Mrs. Zahnd's name was on the advertisement endorsing Mr. Ward Cameron for reelection, I would suggest that he use discression as to whether he should vote on this issue or not. Thank you gentlemen for hearing me out. CAMERON: Soneone else now. No one else in the audience want to speak an this matter? HESTON: My name is Jahn Heston, I live at 971 Wagstaff, which is nextdoor to the Zahnd's home. If you are going to issue a new permit then 1 would suggest that you issue it for another year. As much (rouble as we've had in the past hen:, if it's going we I I to continue„/then I want something to say about it a year from now. _ CAME:RONCan I ask you a question Mr. Heston? The trouble that you referred to, ! presume your talking about the fact of the building without permits and WESTON: Right ~~ ~ CAMERON: Mora adequate parking space HESTONs Yes, right CAMERON: So if these conditions have been taken care of, then page 5 HESTON: Well, or any other thing that may come up within the next year is what I'm referring to. Like in the past, there has been run-a-ways and other things happened on the property which 1 stated here at the first meeting. Clothing in my yard, a child had changed clothes and then run off, and things like this and I feel that we should be able to, a year from now, come up and state any other activities that we feel should be brought to the attention of the Board. CAMERON: Anyone else •want to speak on this matter? NORTON: My name is Sherrill Horton, I'm a counsellor at Zahnd!s girls residence CAMERON: Could you pull the microphone dear, just a little bit, that's better. NORTON: My name is Sherril! HortaA and I'm a counsellor atZahnd's girls residence at 983 Wagstaff Road. I camegrsd spoke last year. {didn't think I would do it again this year, it makes me very nerveaus. A lot of the things that are being discussed happened a year ago. I helped open the home a year ago, I've been with her ever since. There era a lot of changes that have happened there, there's a let more stability than, of course, than an organization that opens right away. A lot of things are mentioned obout the problems they have with children, they don't mention the fact that we have families that come to visit, my own family, comes from the Bay area to visit this home. I don't think that anyone should be worried about anyone visiting or having their children in th~ir•home, they have stayed at my own mother's house. I guess what concerns me is that it's not all bureaucratic, that it is part of my family now and I would just like that people would take into consideration the fact that you. are breaking up a home. I don't think that there are any instances that can be discussed, that have happened, which I would say, within the last six months or anything that are ~,., r"'1 Page questionable. Yes, we do have run-a-ways. I can't see any residential treatment center that does not. We do not have bars and locks, it is a home, and that's all I have. CAMERON: Board members have any questions? Thank you. Someone else? ZAI•iND: How about some copies of the use permit that I signed, with some concern, at the time I signed it 1 had some reservations because number 3 on here states that there be no bussing period. And that is ane of the questions that I had to deal with #~ack then. But we don't bus any more. i wanted to say a few things. !t is unfortunate that wee do have problems with neighbors. I, in part, feel that instead of being con- demned, that I should probably in some way be commended because during the past year I think we've run one of the finest programs far girls in Northam California without any critical instances, either at school, at home, in the neighborhood and we brought no change on the community and we tried to be good neighbors. The girls have even went over and offered to help some of the senior citizens shovel snow in the winter and people refused to let them help. And it's unfortunate, also, because I think the kids need a chance. If there was a bad program like we heard about recently in Shasta County, with Itemi Vista, it was in the newspapers, that would be a different issue. I would ask you people, the Board of Supervisors members to go out and look at the programs that you place your own county kids in, then come and see mine and there would be quite large differences between the quality of care, the quality of supervision, the quality of training of the staff and the involvement of the director with the kids on the staff themselves. And 1 hope you do that, cause 1 think shat ' you owe/ to the kids of Butte County, especially in view of the 3121 law. I didn't disturbs any of the neighborhood, and then I thought maybe I should. Maybe i should go around and talk to the neighbor and find out how they feel about us after being here for a year. Are there a let of people that era negative towards us? When we had our open house Iasi year, we invited the neighbors to come. Mr. Brissell and Peg ~ ~, Mrs. Brissel) couldn't come, they were out of town. Other neighbors couldn't come. Some neighbors said, one husband said I would like to come but my wife dosen't like you or your program. Another neighbor sent us a card and says don't say thank you in front of my ,wife because-she dosrerl'i~.dike.you being here, but I'm all for you. i ask a neighbor, one neighbor, if they would be willing to write a letter to bring with me today and I wanted to read the#. And it says Ta Whom It May Concern: fn behalf of the girls home at 983 Wagstaff Road, we want to soy in the offset that we have not had any problems at olE with the operation at their location. Far over the years we have been~'~ their neighbors, never have there been any loud noises, nor have we seen anything unrulely. The girls, on several occasions, have visited us on our patio and in our home, chatting and enjoying light refreshments. They have never sworn or used any fowl language and we have never been afraid to have them come into our home. In our opinion, it is ashame that there are not more homes for girls I ike these who need o little love and understanding to make them develop into decent citizens juvenile without being cooped up in some~insti~tution. Give the girls a chance. What if it was your daughter. And another thing {wanted to say, as mast of you may know, that that a use permit is one of the things that I have to have. The other thing/ have to to operate in my program have~is a State license from the State Department of Health, which has tighter and more strigent requirements than the use permit, both in program, in superNision, in the quality of the program. They even evaluate the program in irif4r complaints~bvuld be .~ .-~- Filed with them, if there were any~and they just brought inspections and so on and so forth. That license, in eFFect, is the most important and the most highly sanctioned license that a person can have in the field vF residential treatment. And I know that that I icense is important even though I understand from what I hear that :Butte~ounty does not just place kids fn license facilities. They also place kids outside of license Facilities. Programs that I have visited, I've seen Butte County kids there, talked r'1 ~-,_ Page 8 with them even though the program was not licensed by the State. And I'm sure that your all aware of the memorandum from Robert Ferguson that says that we've met the requirements of the conditional use permit. I think it's unfortunate that if wre have to come back in six months, in three months, or nine months, or a year and continue and continue to do the same thing. I would hope that if we could work together in some way that would be productive both for you and for me. To help me to become a better administrator and do a better job with kids and to help you to be able to see the important needs that kids have and how, and some of the components that ga into good programs for helping people solve some of their problems and become good citizens. And I think it's a waste of both of our times to continueti~ examines use permit. Thank you. CAMERON: Do7Board members have any questions? Is there anyone else to speak on this matter before I close this and confine it fo the Board? BRI55ELL: Yes, I have a few more words Fo say. Mr. Zahnd said there haven't been any noises. In the write-up in the Paradise Post, it says here, amoung methods employed by Zahnd and the counselors are what we call holding and rocking. In a holding situa- tion ayoung woman is actually held while she vents any pentup anger without endangering the other girls or herself Zahnd said. I have heard some of the loud noises, some of the and so forth yelling~ver at our place, we live straight across from there. Perhaps different than by others who I ive further away. It also says here that one of tha residents, a pert blond Ib year olds said request to go out on a dote with~a boy or arrogant group . We have seen them go out. We saw a jeep drive up and down a number of times and finally park in the neighbors yard, walk over and get a couple of the girls and take off. glow is that 24 hour a day supervision? It also says here we're practically free to go as we want the blond said. Is that 24 hour supervision? Now while nothing terrible may have happened this year, when you have wards of the court, you've got a dangerous situation. We don't argue with Mr. Zahnd that he runs a good home, or anything of ~'' ~"^• Pagc 9 the kine, but there's another side to it.. We have put a lot of money in our home, and a lot of hard work. I have had two appraisers out there and they both agree that if we were to sell the place, we couldn't get near what it's worth because of the institution across the street. And we ire faced with two things, either we've got to live there and take it and see what's going on, all the added traffic, the busses or the stationwagons backing out into the street, have to get past the tree and the shrubbery before they can even see, the driver can even see the street and the way you'd seen cars would had to stop, and I'm afraid some of these days some of the girls are going to get hurt. We're not against the girls, but we're against some of the methods employed and against the dangerous situation and against what is happened .to us. I think that you gentlemen all know that Mr. Latterman hadn't intended that law to read or to be used as it is at all. In November of last years meeting, I gave you letters that Mr. Latterman had written and it was designed to help poor helpless children that couldn `t help themselves, buff it wasn't designed ro go into business and to have several of the units where there are wards of the court in a residential area. And we have our problems too. We live in aprehension, and it's too bad that, at our age, and that home is surrounded mostly by retired people, that at our age we have to fight something l ike that that's going on in~ our .rtiidst and I hope you gentlemen will give that consideration. Thank you very much. CAMERON: I'm going to close the hearing pnd confine it to Board at this time. As far as Mr. Brissell`s statement of because Mr. Zahnd's name appeared in an ad for my re-election, the County Counsel has informed me that that is not a conflict and that if you took that further down the road there would be some 5600 people that did cast their ballot for me that could be considered in conflict also and that as the ad was not mine personally but placed by the cammitfee, that I do nvt have a confl iet so that I will enter in the discussion and the vote on this matter. I want to say maybe Mr. Brisseil wasn't in Paradise a few years ago when we were having the types of i ~.., f,,,~ Page 10 ., problems that he says occurrs at this particular home. •When I came on this Board in 1972, I was elected in "72, and coma on this Board in '73, we did have some home operations for these same types of people in Paradise that were causing great anxiety for many people, including myself, because I was near one of those where a fire was started by one of those people. That they did lack good and proper supervision and that I was the instigator to get this use permit asked for, which was not in the law, it said dECounty mayK- I was the instigator of getting this on this docket and on the ordinances of this County so that these people xrs Mr. Zahnd would have to come before this Board and ask far a use permit, because I felt this Board had an obligation to look at and see the people that are running these homes, to be able to go out and make a visit to those homes to have some very good background and input of what was going on in them and even though we couldn't slap them, because according to the State law, they have that use available to them and in residential areas, as I am sure you're aware, at least we would have an opportunity to see who those people are, what kind of people they are, what kind of staff their going to have, what kind of an operation and image do they have in the community, or where they acme from what kind of an operation their going to run. And thls was my reasoning for getting this portion of the ordinance in the County, on the County books, which we didn't have before. And I think it has proved out that this has been helpful to us. We don't have the problems in the Paradise area now with these Type of homes that we had a feast in 1973. Sure, you're always going to have ~n inadent or two that will happen in any home where people are being taken care of. We have incidents in our own home, if you had a home with six children of your own in it, 1 don't think you`d have anymore incidents there than is being caused in this home. I don't think you'd have .anymore traffic, I know that I have more traffic in and out of my house with my three teenagers when they were home, and cars parked all over the place, it looked like a used car lot, compared to what's over there. As far as hacking out on Wagstaff Raad,is concerned, i ~ ~ Pal , I think that if you visited holf.of the homes along that way, they all have the same problems. I've been in Mr. Guist's house, right nextdoor to you Mr. Brissell, or nearly nextdoor to you, you can't see out of his driveway either. }calf the people along that road probably have to_do something about cutting some brush and etc. But there's still is got any more, as far as I'm concerned, going on there than there would be a normal family home with six people living there. !realize you don't like the homes, and I understand that and I accept that, but I think when we have someone that is making a concerted effort, as these people are, to run some excellent homes as they are in the Paradise area, rather than making it more difficult for them we ought to be making it more easily for them to operate. These are the types of homes with the kind of supervision, the kind of actual training that they give these people, the opportunity they give these people to become good citizens and be able to take care of themselves further down the road is exactly the kind that we need. Now according to the report of Mr. Ferguson, and I realize that he did make same mis- takes, and he has admitted to this Board he made some mistakes in the beginning by not getting his building permits and a few other things, these things have all been corrected and the final inspection has been made and a!I the violations noted from Mr. Glander's letter have been corrected. And I think we're here today, and should be here today to make a determination of whether in continuing this use permit, are there /• further conditions or any other conditions that need to be added to it i~c to make this operation go in the way that we feel it should . As far as I'm concerned, I certainly support the fine fob that Mr. Zahnd and his home are doing in the paradise Area and y1'hink he certainly shouid be allowed to continue. I went out and looked at it as late as yesterday, there's been changes made even since a few months ago when 1 was there before because I was vary interested and concerned when this matter came up a few months ago. In the lot next to his, or is still part of his lot, he has made an additional parking space, and he has even put concrete on it so that there Pagel ~, is room for three more cars for parking in addition to what's in front of the house in the regular driveway. I think he's madee~eryeffort to try to make this home one that he can be proud of as the man running it and that this community can be proud of to have and I think this permit certainly should be granted for a continuance. Do $oard members have any other comments? MADIGAN: Did you say granted or continued? CAMERON: Continued. MADIGAN: Do you want to totally ignore the violations of the use permit that have: accuroecl ? CAMERON: Well I think that the report from Mr. Ferguson has shown us that the final inspections by the ~~8uilding flppartment and alt the other thingsand that all the violations have been noted have been taken card of, I know that there was some increased fines that he had to pay For his building permits because they were late and etc. and all those conditions now, all those violations that wEre noted have been corrected and taken care of. I don't think we should be here today if they had been corrected as stated in this report from Mr. Ferguson,, the zoning investigator, should be looking back now, Mr. Zohnd himself has stood before you and said I realize I made~sorrse errors and made some mistakes. Those have been corrected. They haven't been bussing people for nine months there. They have another building now that is the school facility. They do not rvn schools then: in that particular house any longer. They have a separate building in commercial property as a school. It just shows again that he is willing to go out and try to make things right, if he knows he's wrong, and has gotten another building in the proper zoned area for a school and takes the girls there for their schooling, instead of trying to continue this hasseling. I'm sure we're all aware of the need for these type of homes in our County, ff you go to any of the kind meetings that we do ~, _ f.,,,,i Page 13 I with the Supervisors Associations around the State, and you go aut and talk #o the Welfare Department of our own County, and every County is looking for and trying to find some type of facilities where these people that need this kind of care and can get proper supervision is needed. If you want to condition it an a year-to-year basis, even though it's another problem for Mr. Zahnd to come back in a year, ('rn sure that he would be willing to do that and as he suggested, I would hope the Board members in that period of time and the new Board members would make an effort to go out and look at this home, at any hour of the day or night. There's just no comparison that what goes on in that type of home with the supervision that he had there, the teaching and the ~~home atmosphere and that's exactly what their entire law is trying to base on why they set these homes shall be allowed in residential Drees. What he is doing there is exactly the type of #hing that needs to 6e done. What's your pleasure gentlemen. MADIGAN: Mr. Chairman, iF you want a motion, I'll make a motion:.that the renewal be denied. CAMERON: Not hearing a second, 171 move the motion be MCKILLOP: Mr. Chairman, I'll second the motion based on the mere fact that Mr. Zahnd knew, and I'm reiterating again from khe last hearing, that bussing was intended under conditions to be stopped and as he didwith the building permit, he ignored the fact thot fhe Board ruled that he would no# bus•, after that permit was issued . And that's the finding I have #o make, if your going to break the condition at his will, when it's convenient for him, and live up to those when they are convenient to him, then I.have to make the finding that he is nat serious about living up to the conditions. And with that finding I'll second it, Mr. Nladigan's motion. CAMERON: The only comment 1'd make to that SuperN'ssbn,M¢Killop~sis the fact as=you reiaJl~~tha~t fhe~.sts~telrtefi't as Mr. Zahnd just read it says that there shall be no bussing. There was quite a discussion with County Counsel in the meeting in his office Page 1~4 of the legality ~ the proper wording of that actual s^:ment in his use perM,r. Is that correct? MCKILLOP: Again I will say Ward BLACKSTOCK: I thought the problem was related to his bussing in other people and using this home as a school. That was the bussing problem as I recall. Not taking them away from the home in question. It was bringing other children into that home and actuolly using it as a school. MCKILLOP: Ward, regardless of that, his place, if he did not and he did not under- stand the use permit, was to come beFore the Board, not before you or County Counsel. The Board made the decision and the recommendation. MADIGAN: That's right MCKILLOP: With the conditions MADIGAN: That`s just another indication that he wants to totally ignore the Board at his will. CAMERON: Motions been mode and seconded. Are you ready for the question? All those in favor of the motion ? LADD, MADIGAN $~ MCKILLOP: Ayes CAMERON: ~©pposedFJet the record show. I=xoted no. 1 don't know legally where that - this probably will take us to court because I'm not sure/the actual permit itself can be denied. MCKILLOP: Well that's why I was making the findings for the record Mr. Chairman* with my second . f'm sure, probably, it wi II end up in court. --~: i .~. -:.rt• pro-- ..• F; ..:l; f-;~:: ti^ ~^ r'uCi~,